ACUFO-1943-09-06-STUTTGART-1
Several ufology sources indicate that during the raid over Stuttgart of September 6, 1943, the following incident occurred:
At 9:50 a.m., over Stuttgart, Germany, the crews of two aircraft of the 384th Bomb Group, commanded by Captain Raymond P. Ketelson, observed two round objects “resembling silvery discs” floating downward through the aircraft formation. One hit the wing of a B-17 bomber, setting it on fire, and this bomber did not return from the mission.
Some sources indicated that this appeared in a U.S. Confidential memo of the A-2 duty desk, titled “Observation of silvery discs on mission to Stuttgart on 6 sept. 1943”; which indicated that two crew members of a Flying Fortress of 384th U.S. Bomb group flying between 22,000 and 24,000 feet observed silvery colored discs coming from above the aircraft, at a time when there were enemy aircraft 2,000 to 3,000 above and ahead of the bombers, not seen to drop any material. The “silvery colored discs” objects were a mass of material, which did not dissipate as it streamed down, falling slowly. One witness told that it was about 75 feet long and 20 feet wide from top to bottom as it fell. This cluster was made of small round objects, and some were observed to fall on the wing of a B-17. The wing immediately started to burn and this B-17 did not return.
| Date: | September 6, 1943 |
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| Time: | 09:50 a.m. |
| Duration: | ? |
| First known report date: | 1943, 2007 |
| Reporting delay: | Hours, weeks, 6 decades. |
| Country: | Germany |
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| State/Department: | Baden-Württemberg |
| City or place: | Stuttgart |
| Number of alleged witnesses: | 2 |
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| Number of known witnesses: | ? |
| Number of named witnesses: | 0 |
| Reporting channel: | Military report, UFO book. |
|---|---|
| Visibility conditions: | Day. |
| UFO observed: | Yes. |
| UFO arrival observed: | ? |
| UFO departure observed: | ? |
| UFO action: | Fell slowly, hit and burned a plane wing. |
| Witnesses action: | |
| Photographs: | No. |
| Sketch(s) by witness(es): | No. |
| Sketch(es) approved by witness(es): | No. |
| Witness(es) feelings: | Puzzled. |
| Witnesses interpretation: | ? |
| Sensors: |
[X] Visual: 2.
[ ] Airborne radar: N/A. [ ] Directional ground radar: [ ] Height finder ground radar: [ ] Photo: [ ] Film/video: [ ] EM Effects: [ ] Failures: [ ] Damages: |
|---|---|
| Hynek: | CE2 |
| Armed / unarmed: | ? |
| Reliability 1-3: | 2 |
| Strangeness 1-3: | 2 |
| ACUFO: | Possible rejects of exploded incendiary bomb. |
[Ref. pre1:] PHILIP R. RIFE:
Many Allied airmen believed the UFOs they encountered in the skies over Europe were radical new German weapons. The conventional wisdom is that if any of the unknown aerial objects referred to as foo fighters were, in fact, secret German inventions, they never reached a stage of development where they posed a serious threat to Allied aircraft. There are, however, several snippets of wartime intelligence that seem to indicate otherwise. Consider, for instance, the following ominous incident found among the records of General H. H. ("Hap") Arnold, who commanded the U.S. Army Air Corps during the war: "On a bombing mission over Stuttgart (Germany) on 6th September 1943, a number of small, silvery discs were observed from the B-17s. One supposedly hit the wing of an aircraft, and the observers saw the aircraft catch fire. The burning aircraft did not return". (282)
The source was described as: "282. Gen. H.H. Arnold papers, USAF Historical Records Center, Maxwell AFB, AL 282."
[Ref. dwn2:] DOMINIQUE WEINSTEIN:
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During a raid on Stuttgart, two crew members of a Flying Fortress (384th U.S. Bomb group) flying between 22,000 and 24,000 feet observed silvery colored discs coming from above the aircraft. At that time there were enemy aircraft 2,000 to 3,000 above and ahead of the bombers but they were not seen to drop any material. These objects were a mass of material, which did not dissipate as it streamed down, fell slow. According to one witness it was about 75 feet long and 20 feet wide (size from top to bottom as it fell). The cluster was made of small round objects silvery in color. Some objects were observed to fall on the wing of a B-17. The wing immediately started to burn. This B-1 7 did not return.
Sources: U.S. Confidential memo, A-2 duty desk, Subject: Observation of silvery discs on mission to Stuttgart on 6 sept. 1943 / Strange Company, Keith Chester, 2007
[Ref. tai1:] "THINK ABOUT IT" WEBSITE:
Date: Sept. 6, 1943
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Time:
Summary: Objects resembling silver discs.
Source: Page 43 Ref.1
[Ref. nip1:] "THE NICAP WEBSITE":
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Sept. 6, 1943; Stuttgart, Germany
Objects resembling silver discs. (Page 43 Ref.1)
The reference 1 is described at the end of the document as “Strange Company (2007), Keith Chester”.
[Ref. kre1:] KEVIN D. RANDLE:
The author says that government files show that on September 6, 1943, a huge bombing raid was made on Stuttgart, Germany, with Captain Raymond P. Ketelson laeding the 384th Bomb Group leader. Near the target flying above 22,000 feet, two of the crews reported “objects resembling silver discs about the size of half-dollars” floating down.
The author says the sighting was published in a classified document called “384 BG memorandum, ATTN: A-2 Duty Desk Section A,” updated with “Additional Information On The Observations of Silvery Colored Discs On Mission to Stuttgart. 6 Sept. 1943”; which said:
This observation was made by two crews of the 384th Group and was the only place it was noted. At this time from 2 to 4 F\Xl. (90's or ME-109's and l JU 88 [German fighter aircraft] were flying 2 or .3000 feet above and a little ahead of our formation. These E/A [enemy aircraft] were not seen t0 drop the material out. It came from above our A/C (aircraft). As to Its shape. it was a mass of material, kept a goo pattern, did not dissipate as it streamed down and fell comparatively slow, In one instance, the cluster appeared to be about 8 ft. in length and about 4 feet wide as it streaked down. Another observation stated it was about 7 5 feet long and 20 feet wide. These dimensions in length being the size from top to bottom as it fell. The duster was composed of small round objects, silvery in color. In all instances, the objects fell in the path of our A/C. Some was observed to fall on the wing of a B-17 belonging to our group. The wing immediately started to burn. The a/c did not return. No further information available.
The author comments that the report shows that these “Foo Fighters” did not fit the classic definition, and may have been some new form of anti-aircraft, that appeared to be successful, though it could be argued that it “might nor have been worth the effort ro deploy it.”
[Ref. get1:] GEORGE M. EBERHART:
1943
September 6
9:50 a.m. During an aerial fight over Stuttgart, Germany, the crews of two aircraft of the 384th Bomb Group, commanded by Capt. Raymond P. Ketelson, observe two round objects “resembling silvery discs” floating downward through the aircraft formation. One hits the wing of a B-17 bomber, setting it on fire. The bomber does not return from the mission.
(Strange Company 43)
[Ref. ano1:] ANONYMOUS POST ON THE WEB:
Event 903 (26CAAA71)
Date: 9/6/1943
Description: 9:50 a.m. During an aerial fight over Stuttgart, Germany, the crews of two aircraft of the 384th Bomb Group, commanded by Capt. Raymond P. Ketelson, observe two round objects “resembling silvery discs” floating downward through the aircraft formation. One hits the wing of a B-17 bomber, setting it on fire. The bomber does not return from the mission. (Strange Company 43) Autumn - A Polish bomber unit based in England claims that silver-blue balls of fire appeared near their wing on six missions when they raided the Nazi V-1 weapons plant in Peenemünde, Germany. RAF intelligence officer Michael Bentine debriefs them later and asks, “But what did it do to you?” They reply, “Nothing.” Bentine points out, “Well it was not a very effective weapon, was it?” (UFOFiles2, p. 20; David Clarke and Andy Roberts, “The Foo Fighters: The RAF Experience,” The Real UFO Project, January 2003)
Reference: Eberhart
Source ID: 594
Source: EberhartUFOI
Looking through the mission logs now. Interestingly, the pilot who hit the discs over Schweinfurt on Black Thursday (Philip Algar) was also flying this mission in the same aircraft, airframe 026 “Battlewagon”:
https://384thbombgroup.com/piwigo_384th_gallery/picture.php?/185845/category/4538
[Ref. shg1:] "SIGN HISTORY GROUP":
A web page by the The Sign Historical Group ufology group in the U.S. lists Government folder headings of holdings of Project 1947 Jan Aldrich (“ja” below). It lists:
“1943 - Sep, Stuttgart. Germany, Small discs (General Arnold's files) (ja)”
The U.S. B-17 “Flying Fortress” was a heavy bomber fitted with five 7.62 machine guns for its defense against enemy fighter planes.
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A July 6, 1943, Associated Press newsbrief mentioned Raymond P. Ketelson, of Houston, Texas, as a U.S. Army Air Forces bomber pilot in July 1943 in Europe of a plane nicknamed "Inferno".
Historical WWII sources confirm there was a raid over Stuttgart on September 6, 1943. 388 B-17 “Flying Fortresses” gathered over southern England and the English Channel, bound for Stuttgart to destroy its industrial sector, where American intelligence in 1943 estimated 90% of Germany's magnetos and fuel injection nozzles were being produced.
It was the first daylight attack on Stuttgart, and the United States Army Air Force's first attack on Stuttgart, Of the 262 B-17s that made it to Stuttgart, 45 were lost.
Over Cambrai in France, a number of Luftwaffe fighters attacked the formation and exchanged blows with its escorting P-47 Thunderbolts before ceasing their action at 8:44 AM. At this time, the escorting P-47s were running low on fuel and had to return to base, and the B-17 continued over Germany without escort.
The B-17 were attacked again by German fighter planes, but the attacks abruptly ceased when the B-17s arrived over Stuttgart, where the city's anti-air Flak cannons began to open fire on the bombers.
Moments after the B-17s left the Stuttgart area, German fighter planes attacked them again, and this continued until the B-17 joined with U.S. escort planes again over France.
As many B-17s were lost or force landed, several officers described the raid as “one of the most costly fiascos in 8th Air Force history”.
The information on the raid would suggest this:
The witnesses would not have misinterpreted U.S. fighter planes as there were none with them when the sighting took place.
The witnesses would not have misinterpreted German fighter planes as they did not attack when the sighting took place over Stuttgart; as flak intervened, they were waiting ahead. As stated in the report, “enemy aircraft” were ”2,000 to 3,000 above and ahead of the bombers”.
When the sighting occurred, German flak was certainly in action.
The report said that the “cluster” of “small discs” was “made of small round objects silvery in color. Some objects were observed to fall on the wing of a B-17. The wing immediately started to burn.”
This does not look at all like “UFOs” in the sense of “extraterrestrial craft”; it looks more like incendiary bomb rejects.
Was there a B-17 well above the witnessing B-17? Did it drop an incendiary magnesium or thermite bomb that accidentally exploded and spread flaming debris which hit a B-17? Did an incendiary bomb explode when it was hit by the flak? I am not sure of this; but I cannot exclude some explanation of this kind.
Possible rejects of exploded incendiary bomb.
* = Source is available to me.
? = Source I am told about but could not get so far. Help needed.
| Main author: | Patrick Gross |
|---|---|
| Contributors: | None |
| Reviewers: | None |
| Editor: | Patrick Gross |
| Version: | Create/changed by: | Date: | Description: |
|---|---|---|---|
| 0.1 | Patrick Gross | October 8, 2023 | Creation, [dwn2], [tai1], [nip1], [get1], [ano1], [sgh1]. |
| 1.0 | Patrick Gross | October 8, 2023 | First published. |
| 1.1 | Patrick Gross | June 10, 2024 | Addition [kre1]. |
| 1.2 | Patrick Gross | July 29, 2024 | Addition [pre1]. |
