ACUFO-1943-00-00-ATLANTIC-1
Circa 1999, U.S. ufologist Jan Aldrich prepared a catalog of summaries of early cases of aircraft - UFO encounters that were sometimes previously unpublished or little-known. This was to help French ufologist Dominique Weinstein in compiling the latter's catalog of aircraft - UFO encounters.
One of such cases is indicated to have taken place at night, in the Atlantic Ocean, between USA and England, the witnesses being a US Navy PB-2Y5 pilot and 8 crewmen.
They reportedly saw a single lighted red orange object flying in formation off the wing of the aircraft.
The pilot repositioned the aircraft several time, and each time the object matched the maneuver. The UFO took off ahead of the aircraft and vanished from sight in 30 seconds.
Aldrich indicated that the case was a report to ufologist Paul Cerny and an interview with ufologist Dr. Richard Haines; the latter clarified that this incident had to take place in 1943.
Indeed, in the archive of the U.S. ufology group National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP), there were notes taken by ufologist Paul Cerny. We learn that the reporting witness was Dr. James Greider, born March 7, 1919, who was a U.S. Navy pilot during World War II with the rank of Lieutenant Commander, and a commercial freight pilot after the war in the American Overseas Airline and Seabord Airlines companies.
The date of the sighting was rather vague because of the years that passed, it was either during or just after World War II, ie between 1941 and 1945.
Greider was flying 10,000 feet high at 200 miles per hour somewhere between the U.S.A. and England, over the North Atlantic, at approximately midnight, piloting a U.S. Navy PB2Y5 - the Navy version of the B-24 heavy bomber.
The U.F.O. was first sighted “flying formation” just about 300 feet off the wing of the PB2Y5. Its size was estimated to have been anywhere between 30 feet to 100 feet in diameter, as Greider noted, this was difficult to establish.
Whenever Greider maneuvered the plane into a different position, the U.F.O. would duplicate that position. After a minute or two, the U.F.O. took off ahead of the aircraft until it disappeared from view. Greider estimated that it took the U.F.O. approximately 30 seconds to vanish from sight.
There was never a definite outline of the U.F.O., it appeared “fuzzy at the outer edge of light - much like a “glowing coal”, and the shape was completely round.
Greider indicated that all 8 crew members also saw the UFO.
The object was not reported to the authorities at that time because, Greider said, such incidents on U.S. flight over the North Atlantic were a »common occurrence; they were usually the topic of conversation over breakfast, dinner etc”.
This sighting was also reported in the U.S. ufology bulletin UFO Research Newsletter No. 6 for June - July 1975.
The data is the same, and we additionally learn that before becoming a U.S, Navy pilot, Greider had been a medical doctor. Oddly, his first name here was not given as James but as Eugene. Instead of 8, the crew members were said to be 10 or 11.
| Date: | 1943 |
|---|---|
| Time: | Night. |
| Duration: | ? |
| First known report date: | 1999 |
| Reporting delay: | 6 decades. |
| Country: | USA |
|---|---|
| State/Department: | N/A |
| City or place: | N/A, over the North Atlantic Ocean between USA and U-K. |
| Number of alleged witnesses: | 9 |
|---|---|
| Number of known witnesses: | ? |
| Number of named witnesses: | 0 |
| Reporting channel: | US ufologists Paul Cerny and Richard Haines. |
|---|---|
| Visibility conditions: | Night. |
| UFO observed: | Yes. |
| UFO arrival observed: | ? |
| UFO departure observed: | Yes. |
| UFO action: | Flies along plane, maneuvers like plane, flies in front on plane, departs. |
| Witnesses action: | Maneuvers. |
| Photographs: | No. |
| Sketch(s) by witness(es): | No. |
| Sketch(es) approved by witness(es): | No. |
| Witness(es) feelings: | ? |
| Witnesses interpretation: | ? |
| Sensors: |
[X] Visual: 1 to 9
[N/A] Airborne radar: [N/A] Directional ground radar: [N/A] Height finder ground radar: [ ] Photo: [ ] Film/video: [ ] EM Effects: [ ] Failures: [ ] Damages: |
|---|---|
| Hynek: | NL |
| Armed / unarmed: | Armed, 2 20 mm nose guns, 4 7.62 mm machine guns. |
| Reliability 1-3: | 1 |
| Strangeness 1-3: | 2 |
| ACUFO: | Possible extraterrestrial craft. |
[Ref. pcy1:] PAUL CERNY:
In the NICAP ufology group archive, two pages were notes by investigator Paul Cerny:
|
Name Dr. James Greider
Date of birth March 7, 1919
Occupation During World War Two -- Pilot (Lieutenant Commander) in the S.A.A. Navy. After the war, Commercial pilot (Freight)
(1) American Overseas Airline
(2) Seabord Airlines
Date of Sighting Rather vague because of years passed -- Either during or just after the war.
Place North Atlantic (between U.S.A. and England).
Time Approximately midnight
Type of aircraft B 24 (converted by Navy into PB2Y5).
Altitude 10,000 ft.
Speed 200 M.P.H.
Details of Sighting
During one of the flights from the U.S.A. to England, the U.F.O. was first sighted “flying formation” just about 300 ft. off the wing of the aircraft. Its size was estimated to have been anywhere between 30 ft. to 100 ft. in diameter “(Depth perception is difficult on a single lighted object).”
Whenever the pilot maneuvered the plane into a different position, the U.F.O. would
|
|
duplicate that position.
After a minute or two the U.F.O. took off ahead of the aircraft until it disappeared from view. The Pilot estimated his flying speed at 200 M.P.H. and it took the U.F.O. approximately 30 seconds to vanish from sight.
There was never a definite outline of the U.F.O., but it appeared “fuzzy at the outer edge of light - much like a “glowing coal”. The shape of the U.F.O. was completely round.
The duration of this particular sighting was estimated to have been 3 minutes.
The object was not reported to authorities at that time because on flights from the U.S.A. over the North Atlantic, U.F.O.s were a common occurrence. In fact, they were usually the topic of conversation over breakfast, dinner etc”.
[Handwritten:] Total of 8 crew members on board aircraft at the time, all saw the UFO.
[Ref. urn1:] "UFO RESEARCH NEWSLETTER":
|
A pilot and his crew who saw a UFO over the North Atlantic; an object that illuminated a 2-3 block area; another that was larger than a building; a “multitiered” UFO; and an object with “lightning-like effects bouncing off” it were characteristics of sighting reports spanning a 30-year period. UFO researcher Paul C. Cerny investigated the incidents and sent reports to UFOR.
Dr. Eugene Greider is a medical doctor who was a pilot (lieutenant commander) in the U.S. Navy during World War II. Following the great global conflict, he became a commercial pilot and flew for American Overseas Airline and Seaboard Airlines.
Sometime around 1943, Greider (the pilot) and 10 or 11 crew members were flying a PB2Y5 Navy aircraft (a converted B-24) somewhere over the North Atlantic -- between the U.S. and England -- at an altitude of 10,000 feet and a speed of 200 m.p.h. when they saw a “red orange” UFO that looked like a “glowing coal” cruising approximately 300 feet off the wing of the aircraft. The round “foo fighter” (the name World War II pilots labeled UFOs) was estimated to be 30-l00 feet in diameter.
“It stayed with us and we turned a little bit - and it would turn,” the pilot stated years later in his report. “We'd turn back and it would turn back... After a little while, it took off ahead of us. It just went ahead of us and disappeared out of sight.”
The object took about 30 seconds to disappear and was seen for an estimated total of three minutes. Greider said the incident was not reported to authorities because “foo fighter” sightings were a common occurrence on North Atlantic flights during the war.
[Ref. prt1:] JAN ALDRICH - "PROJECT 1947":
Circa 1999, U.S. ufologist Jan Aldrich prepared a catalog of summaries of early cases of aircraft - UFO encounters that were sometimes previously unpublished or little-known. This was to help French ufologist Dominique Weinstein in compiling the latter's catalog of aircraft - UFO encounters. Aldrich explained that as Dominique Weinstein has many of the primary documents, the summaries are very short.
N [=New case not in 1997 ACUFOE catalog] - 1943 Changed entry from N - 1945:
(An interview with Dr. Haines clarifies that this incident had to take place in 1943), Night, Atlantic, between USA and England, US Navy PB-2Y5, pilot and 8 crewmen, Single lighted red orange object flew formation off the wing of the aircraft. Pilot repositioned the aircraft several time. Each time the object matched the maneuver. UFO took off ahead of the aircraft and vanished from sight in 30 seconds. (Report to Paul Cerny and interview with Dr. Richard Haines)
[Ref. dwn1:] DOMINIQUE WEINSTEIN:
French ufologist Dominique Weinstein compiled a catalog of the cases of UFOs observed from aircraft. The first case in February 2001 (6th edition) catalog appears as:
|
| DATE | 43.00.00 |
|---|---|
| HOUR | night |
| COUNTRY | Atlantic Ocean |
| PLACE | Between USA and England |
| M | |
| TYPE OF PLANE AND WITNESSES | a USN PPB-2Y5 pilot + 8 crew members |
| DESCRIPTION OVNI | one single lit orange object flew in formation with the aircraft. |
| Radar | |
| G | |
| X | |
| E | |
| SOURCES | 03/37 |
The sources "03" and "37" are referenced at the end of the catalog as:
03 Project 1947 Reports, newsclippings and documents (cases from Jan Aldrich and Barry Greenwood)
37 List of ACUFOE cases prior to 1947, Jan Aldrich, Project 1947
[Ref. dwn2:] DOMINIQUE WEINSTEIN:
|
One night (month and day not specified) the pilot and the eight crew members of a US Navy PB-2Y5 observed a single lighted red-orange object which flew in formation off the wing of the aircraft. The pilot repositioned the aircraft several time. Each time the object matched the maneuver. The UAP took off ahead of the plane and vanished from sight in 30 seconds.
Sources: Dr. Richard Haines Files / Project 1947, Jan Aldrich
[Ref. tai1:] "THINK ABOUT IT" WEBSITE:
Date: Summer of 1943
Location: North Atlantic
Time:
Summary: PB2Y5 paced by red-orange object. Pilot made several turns but object matched maneuvers, finally object took off ahead and disappeared in 30 sec.
Source: Richard Hall, UFOE I, page 23; Interview with witness by Richard Haines
[Ref. nip1:] "THE NICAP WEBSITE":
|
Summer of 1943; North Atlantic
PB2Y5 paced by red-orange object. Pilot made several turns but object matched maneuvers, finally object took off ahead and disappeared in 30 sec. (Richard Hall, UFOE I, page 23; Interview with witness by Richard Haines)
The Consolidated PBY Catalina was a seaplane produced in the 1930s and 1940s. It was one of the most widely used seaplanes of World War II. Catalinas served with every branch of the United States Armed Forces and in the air forces and navies of many other nations.
|
Its range was about 2,520 miles (4,060 km, 2,190 nmi).
For its defense, it was equipped with 2 Browning 1919 7.62 mm machine guns in the nose, 1 Browning M2 12.7 mm at the front, 1 Browning 1919 7.62 mm at the rear, and 2 20 mm cannon in the nose. It could carry 900 kg of bombs and two torpedoes or anti-submarine grenades.
However, in the reports, we are told that the plane, a "PB2Y5", was the U.S. Navy version of the B-24.
This mean that the plane was not a Catalina seaplane, but a four-engine Consolidated Aircraft PB4Y “Privateer” (photo below); which was a WWII patrol bomber used by the U.S. Navy, directly derived from the B-24 “Liberator”.
|
Unlike the original B-24, it had a single vertical tail instead of a double tail, and bubble-shaped side gunner canopies of the same appearance as those of the PBY “Catalina” maritime patrol seaplane of Consolidated Aircraft.
I could not find anything more on the sighting so far. Paul Cerny was an American ufologist active in the 1970's, chairman of the Mutual UFO Network's Bay Area chapter (MUFON) and then MUFON's western regional director. The witnesses are not known and neither are the circumstances of the report.
The distance to the coast is not given, one would think that the red light would be that of a friendly plane.
With the sources I now found, [pcy1], [urn1], I searched for information on the reporting witness, and found some at
https://www.seaboardairlines.org/obits/greider.htm
 Photo courtesy of Cheryl Greider Bradkin |
Eugene Greider was born in New York. He finished a three-year pre-med course but ran out of money. He joined the U.S. Navy and flew PBYs and R4Ds during World War II. After the war, he still needed money to pay for his medical education, so he joined Seaboard in 1947 as one of the first pilots and spent several years flying and attending New York Medical College.
He graduated from New York Medical College in 1952 and moved to California and opened a family practice in Sunnyvale. Later he was a founder of El Camino Hospital in Mountain View.
Dr. Eugene Greider was survived by his wife Norma, children Cheryl Bradkin of Whidbey Island, Wash., Brett Greider of Santa Clara, Buff Greider, M.D. of Los Altos, Laurey Greider Carter of San Rafael, and six grandchildren. He is seen here in front of N54373, later named Wake Island Airtrader.
Other sources indicate that he died on April 16, 2007 at the age of 88.
Thus, the witness was real, he was a U.S. Navy pilot in WWII, and the correct first name was Eugene, not James.
Possible extraterrestrial craft.
* = Source is available to me.
? = Source I am told about but could not get so far. Help needed.
| Main author: | Patrick Gross |
|---|---|
| Contributors: | None |
| Reviewers: | None |
| Editor: | Patrick Gross |
| Version: | Create/changed by: | Date: | Description: |
|---|---|---|---|
| 0.1 | Patrick Gross | September 25, 2023 | Creation, [prt1], [dwn1], [nip1]. |
| 1.0 | Patrick Gross | September 25, 2023 | First published. |
| 1.1 | Patrick Gross | September 28, 2023 | Additions [tai1], [dwn2]. |
| 1.2 | Patrick Gross | June 17, 2024 | Addition [pcy1], [urn1]. In the Summary, addition of the information from [pcy1] and [urn1]. In the Discussion, addition of the update for June 17, 2024. |
