URECAT -> Homeclick!
Cette page en françaisCliquez!

URECAT - UFO Related Entities Catalog

URECAT is a formal catalog of UFO related entities sightings reports with the goal of providing quality information for accurate studies of the topic. Additional information, corrections and reviews are welcome at patrick.gross@inbox.com, please state if you wish to be credited for your contribution or not. The main page of the URECAT catalog is here.

1922, Hochstatt, Haut-Rhin, France, four children:

Brief summary of the event and follow-up:

In his ufology catalog of regional encounters with "humanoids" in a broad sense, compiled in the mid 1980's, Raoul Robé indicated that in Hochstatt in 1922, a "Marian apparition to four children" occurred; which was not "recognized by the Church."

It seems that this is the only ufology source mentioning it. Rare, later, sources about the so-called "Virgin Mary" encounters mentioned the case, not telling it was children, and giving no other detail, except for one of these sources adding that the diocesan clergy was discreet about the case; which created neither tensions nor discussions at any level.

Basic information table:

Case number: URECAT-001629
Date of event: 1922
Earliest report of event: 1986?
Delay of report: Hours, 4 decades.
Witness reported via: Not known.
First alleged record by: L. Blaise.
First certain record by: Ufology catalogue Raoul Robé.
First alleged record type: Not known.
First certain record type: Ufology catalogue.
This file created on: August 11, 2018
This file last updated on: August 11, 2018
Country of event: Haut-Rhin
State/Department: Hochstatt
Type of location: Not reported, Hochszatt.
Lighting conditions: Not reported.
UFO observed: No
UFO arrival observed: N/A
UFO departure observed: N/A
UFO/Entity Relation: None
Witnesses numbers: 4
Witnesses ages: Children.
Witnesses types: Children.
Photograph(s): No.
Witnesses drawing: No.
Witnesses-approved drawing: No.
Number of entities: 1
Type of entities: Blessed virgin
Entities height: Not reported.
Entities outfit type: Not reported.
Entities outfit color: Not reported.
Entities skin color: Not reported.
Entities body: Not reported.
Entities head: Not reported.
Entities eyes: Not reported.
Entities mouth: Not reported.
Entities nose: Not reported.
Entities feet: Not reported.
Entities arms: Not reported.
Entities fingers: Not reported.
Entities fingers number: Not reported.
Entities hair: Not reported.
Entities voice: Not reported.
Entities actions: Not reported.
Entities/witness interactions: Not reported.
Witness(es) reactions: Not reported.
Witness(es) feelings: Not reported.
Witness(es) interpretation: Not reported.
Explanation category: Not related to UFOs, totally insufficient data, unknown credibility
Explanation certainty: High.

Narratives:

[Ref. ro1:] RAOUL ROBE:

The catalogue compiled by Raoul Robé is described as publishing the "humanoids" appearances - in a broad sense - that occurred since 1900 on the action area of the ufology group CNEGU, comprizing Haut-Rhin and Bas-Rhin. It is said the work has been done thanks to the collaboration of associations members of CNEGU, and people from "Lumières Dans La Nuit", including Alain Gamard.

There is a "List of the Humanoid cases in the N.E.", where this appears, inter alia:

CASE Nr DATE HOUR LIEU WITNESSES SEX
4 ??.??.22 ? M* Hochstatt 4 children

Further on, the following information is given:

Case #4

In 1922 in Hoshstatt (68).

Blessed virgin appearance in front of 4 children (Ref. : L. Blaise, Alonso).

[Ref. ls1:] RENE LAURENTIN AND PATRICK SBALCHIERO:

HOCHSTATT (France, Haut-Rhin): In 1922 the "Virgin appears" to several persons, according to Bouflet-Boutry*, 1997, 232. P.S.

[Ref. cm1:] "LA CARTE MARIALE DU MONDE":

Hochstatt

In 1922, many people allege an extraordinary apparition of the Virgin Mary in the Alsatian village of Hochstatt (France, Haut-Rhin).

The diocesan clergy remained discreet about the facts, but the phenomenon did not generate tensions or discussions at any level.

Points to consider:

One may wonder why an alleged "appearance of the Blessed Virgin" appears in a ufology catalog.

I wonder about that myself. But since at least one source believes that this story is part of ufology, whatever the reason is, I also have to deal with it, to assess the meaning this "appearance the Blessed Virgin" case might have in connection with ufology, I need to see what this is all about before I can deny or accept the relevance of the story to ufology.

A part of the ufologists, usually those who consider the idea of extraterrestrial visitors false or stupid, blame others who do not agree to "ignore" or "silence" a range of "phenomena", such as the "apparitions of the Blessed Virgin." They consider that such events teach something to ufologists and that ignoring them is a methodological error, or a form of "closed mindedness" or even "stupidity".

So, they are wrong here, as I did not "reject" the matter without consideration, on the contrary, I looked for the best possible documentation on the case so that I can make a thoughtful assessment about it; and it is only after doing this that I state whether this case teaches something useful in ufology.

I should explain briefly to the possibly ufologically "novice" reader, the reasoning that some ufologists give to justify that a "Blessed Virgin appearance" would indeed be relevant to ufology. Many reasons are put forth, some of which are contradictory with the others. But they exist:

These are, in short, why "Blessed Virgin visions" are sometimes found in UFO literature.

Now, what do we have regarding this case in Hochstatt in 1922?

Almost nothing from the point of view of the UFO investigator. There is no exact date, no hour, no exact location, no distance, no duration, no description, no witnesses names, no trace of any primary source, no investigation, no research, nothing. Here we are at level zero on the quality of the "case".

Imagine a case of an "encounter with an alien" for which all the information would be: "In 1922, in Hochstatt 4 children said they saw an alien." Who, then, would proclaim that it is a proven extraterrestrial visitation? Or that any other explanation would be reliable?

It seems we have no UFO, and the "entity" allegedly seen seems to have had the looks of the "Blessed Mary" instead of looking like a being from another planet.

So many explanations are possible, which are all more or less of identical certainty, none can be "proven" as the story stands so far.

Maybe children in Hochstatt mistook an alien for the "Blessed Virgin." Maybe "real aliens" had fun making up a "fake Blessed Virgin." Maybe this was a misinterpretation of some kind. Maybe it had not happened at all, it was all invented, by the children perhaps - and this is the thesis that has my preference in the absence of other information. I think any sensible ufologist would find it hard to claim this is a reliable and credible report.

We know nothing of the context. What did the children do, where were they? It is perfectly possible that a child experienced a classic hypnagogic hallucination in his half-sleep, in all "good faith", and then convinced comrades to support his story. Perhaps the children had eaten some bread contaminated with ergot and it caused some hallucinations?

Who knows? Not me. If someone "knows", please share your knowledge, with the facts and arguments to support it.

For now, all I can conclude is that this case does not enlighten me at all when it comes to give an explanation either to this case or to "UFOs in general." And nothing shows me that this must be associated with the question of UFO sightings reports or UFO occupants.

List of issues:

Id: Topic: Severity: Date noted: Raised by: Noted by: Description: Proposal: Status:
1 Data Severe August 11, 2018 Patrick Gross Patrick Gross Help needed. Opened.

Evaluation:

Not related to UFOs, totally insufficient data, unknown credibility

Sources references:

* = Source I checked.
? = Source I am told about but could not check yet. Help appreciated.

Document history:

Authoring

Main Author: Patrick Gross
Contributors: None
Reviewers: None
Editor: Patrick Gross

Changes history

Version: Created/Changed By: Date: Change Description:
0.1 Patrick Gross August 11, 2018 Creation, [ro1], [ls1], [cm1].
1.0 Patrick Gross August 11, 2018 First published.

Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict



 Feedback  |  Top  |  Back  |  Forward  |  Map  |  List |  Home
This page was last updated on August 11, 2018.