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ALSACAT:

As its name suggests, ALSACAT is my comprehensive catalog of UFO sighting reports in Alsace, the region is the North-East of France, whether they are "explained" or "unexplained".

The ALSACAT catalog is made of case files with a case number, summary, quantitative information (date, location, number of witnesses...), classifications, all sources mentioning the case with their references, a discussion of the case in order to evaluate its causes, and a history of the changes made to the file. A general index and thematic sub-catalogs give access to these Alsatian case files.

Case of Erstein, on November 5, 1990:

Case number:

ALSACAT-1990-11-05-ERSTEIN-1

Summary:

On March 1, 2011, on the French UFO forum "Les Mystères des OVNIS", an anonymous participant, 40-year-old carpenter in Wittenheim, interested in ufology, filed his testimony as a witness of a "giant UFO" on November 5, 1990, at about 06:45 p.m. or 07:00 p.m.

He says that night, he was out of his house in Erstein where he was living at the time, to join his friends. He was walking to the appointment place when lights in the sky caught his attention.

He first thought that "this craft" is "not ours" because of its sheer size. He said the shape was like a gigantic triangular delta wing but of staggering size.

He says he managed to very well observe the dark colored craft despite the night and says he managed to distinguish contours.

It was flying very slowly and in silence; which he thought "seemed crazy considering its size" of at least six football fields "or even more."

He says that at the tip of the craft, there was a big light, followed by three smaller lights on each side.

He looked at the object going away slowly and silently to then disappear behind the clouds.

When he talked around about ir, he was mocked and had therefore stopped to talk. He ensures that it was not "a piece of rocket or a meteorite," the official explanation that he thinks is to take people for fools.

A forum participant reminds him the fall of the rocket debris that night, but he denies this explanation, saying it was "not a rocket," it was "incredibly big" and "of triangular form" and other witnesses saw the same thing he saw, and that we are not able to build such a craft.

He fails to answer a question from a participant asking if this was passing at his zenith. At the suggestion of a member who proposes that the aliens "are taking advantage of atmospheric reentries", he replied that he had also thought about it, "if it was not a UFO that crashed into the debris which then fell on earth, given the size of the UFOs that night, it's still possible."

This was, of course, one of the numerous sightings of what was absolutely not a "UFO", but the flaming debris of a Russian Proton that crossed the sky of France from the South-West to the North-East on that day and time.

Data:

Temporal data:

Date: November 5, 1990
Time: Between 06:45 p.m. and 07:00 p.m.
Duration: ?
First known report date: March 1, 2011
Reporting delay: 21 years.

Geographical data:

Department: Bas-Rhin
City: Erstein
Place: Outside in Erstein, UFO in the sky.
Latitude: 48.423
Longitude: 7.665
Uncertainty ratio: 1 km

Witnesses data:

Number of alleged witnesses: Several.
Number of known witnesses: 1
Number of named witnesses: 0
Witness(es) ages: 19
Witness(es) types: Carpenter.

Ufology data:

Reporting channel: Message to ufology forum "Les Mystères des OVNIS".
Type of location: Outside in city, UFO in the sky.
Visibility conditions: Night
UFO observed: Yes
UFO arrival observed: No
UFO departure observed: Yes
Entities: No
Photographs: No.
Sketch(s) by witness(es): Yes, unavailable.
Sketch(es) approved by witness(es): Yes, unavailable.
Witness(es) feelings: Impressed, glad.
Witnesses interpretation: Not a rocket, not a meteor, an alien spacecraft.

Classifications:

Hynek: NL
ALSACAT: Space junk reentry.

Sources:

[Ref. my1:] "LES MYSTERES DES OVNIS" WEB FORUM :

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim [sic, "Wittenheim"]
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Tue 01 Mar 2011, 12:38

Hello here it is that night i was outside my home at about 06:45p.m. or even 07:00 p.m. to gather with my friends at that time i was living in Erstein , 30km south of Strasbourg.So I was walking to the meeting place when lights in the sky caughted [sic] my attention. My first thought was.. woooh this craft is not from our planet given its huge size.Its shape was triangular like an amazingly huge delta wing , i was able to well observe the craft of a very dark color and despite it was in the night i was able to distinguish the contours ,it flew very slowly and without noise ,i thought it was crazy given its size (at least like 6 soccer fields or even more) it was hige.At the point of the craft ther was a big light followd [sic] of 3 smaller on each side.

So i looked this craft go away slowly and silently ,then disaüüear behind the clouds.

When i spoke about it around methey laughed at me ,and i stopped talking about it given the scoffing i got.

i just wanted to ad that in no way was this a piece of rocket or a meteorite(official explanation)they should not take us for morons.

Dam468
Forum team
Male Age: 65
Number of messages: 547
Registered on: 18/05/2008
Localization: 79500
Occupation: retraité
Hobbies: ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Tue 01 Mar 2011, 05:55 p.m.

Hi theseb67 and welcome on the forum,

since you made your observation next to Strasbourg.. you were on the trajectory of the famous Russian rocket,

so you must have seen it pass abovehead from you, is that it?

From Strasbourg the potential witness could only observe a trajectory going from one horizon to the other and passing at their zenith..

Best regards.

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

no it was not a rocket what i saw i can all the same recongize [sic] a rocket as i exlained it was incredibly big and of triangular shape ,in Erstein the village where i lived there were several witnesses who saw the same thing i saw but in no way a rocket or anything else it was realy [sic] a ufo ,we are unable to this day to make fli [sic] a craft of that size and moreover without noise ,

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mar 01 Mar 2011, 18:12

i made a sketch with paint of what i saw but i can't post it

thanks for the info i post the link to the sketch you made

http://www.hebergementimages.com/image-d696f440a21497f60b0c550133079487_Sans-titre.JPG.html

as you can see dam its [sic] far to resemble a rocket of any kind

the yellow dots on my sketch it was the lights that were at the front of the craft and i tell it again it had an immense size

Dam468
Forum team
Male Age: 65
Number of messages: 547
Registered on: 18/05/2008
Localization: 79500
Occupation: retraité
Hobbies: ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Tue 01 Mar 2011, 06:37 p.m.

theseb67 wrote:

"no it was not a rocket what i saw i can all the same recongize [sic] a rocket as i exlained it was incredibly big and of triangular shape ,in Erstein the village where i lived there were several witnesses who saw the same thing i saw but in no way a rocket or anything else it was realy [sic] a ufo ,we are unable to this day to make fli [sic] a craft of that size and moreover without noise ,"

er yes.. you did not understand my question apparently, did you see this triangular formation pass right above you or on the side relative to the horizon?

At what place in the sky was it when it was the closest to you?

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mar 01 Mar 2011, 18:44

ok i did not understood [sic] you well i saw the craft straight in front of me so yes more to the horizon it flew very low at slow speed then after a few seconds it disappeared behind the clouds

look at my sketch and tell me iof you saw the same thing or if yours was different because apparently there were smaller ones according to the testimones but that i did no see

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mar 01 Mar 2011, 18:52

and also i wrote that its size was to be several soccer filds but frankly i wrote that so that it does not appear too much but according to me frankly it was larger than than like a kind of small city ,and that's why i am certain it was not a rocket or anything else like they wanted us to believe

Benjamin.d
Responsable du forum
Male Age: 35
Number of messages: 12447
Registered on: 11/03/2007
Localization: France
Occupation: Private
Hobbies: Ufology, History, reading

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mar 01 Mar 2011, 19:26

Hi theseb67,

Do the craft on these photos and video resemble what you observed?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbxrxa_ovni-ufo-triangulaires-dans-le-mond_tech#from=embed

http://www.forum-ovni-ufologie.com/t9287-2005-triangle-ufo-lights-filmed-over-arizona-on-feb-09

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mar 01 Mar 2011, 19:48

it resembles a bit the first video of the 2nd link except that the size of the ufo the one on the video seems quite small to me for the size of the ufo i saw it was more like the size of the one that hovered above the city of Phoenix on March 13, 1997, except that it was triangular with a big light at the point followed of 3 smaller others on each side like on my sketch

the link to the ufo hovering above Phoenix

https://www.youtube.com/embed/HXM77vY-cvs?rel=0"

i found a video, the ufo that it shows resembleswhat i saw re-lative to the places of the lights then about the size i dont know theres nothing around to define its size

https://www.youtube.com/embed/I0GWT0LsNxc?rel=0"

fred31
Confirmed member
Male Age: 38
Number of messages: 6
Registered on: 22/06/2011
Localization: Toulouse
Occupation: Vidéo
Hobbies: Musice Poker Archeology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mer 29 Juin 2011, 15:55

I'd like to see your sketch theseb but it is not available anymore

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mer 29 Juin 2011, 16:14

the link to my sketch is available again i think after a while he removes it thats why it did not work anymore ,small detail the ufo i had seen was black and not grey like on my sketch as for the rest it matches.

Lorant
Confirmed member
Male Age: 43
Number of messages: 7
Registered on: 27/06/2011
Localization: france
Occupation: Gagency director
Hobbies: music

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mer 29 Juin 2011, 22:42

Hello

Glas to see i'm not the only one to doubt the official explanation.

Like Theseb67, i saw something huge, a triangle with a light in the center and other smaller lights at the back.

I observed the phenomenon for about 10 seconds, just above me.

Slow move, imposing and silent i'd say from south to north relative of the position of the building in front of which i was.

It was in Morteau (25) on November 5 at about 7 p.m..

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mer 29 Juin 2011, 22:52

you saw it too it was frankly amazing i remember very well bout it that dark mass that floatd [sic] in the air it was unbelievable

philippe77
Male Age: 46
Number of messages: 145
Registered on: 21/01/2011
Localization: RP
Occupation:...
Hobbies: travels

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mer 29 Juin 2011, 22:58

Good evening,

i saw it too, but in another region.

the official explanation (atmospheric reentry of a satellite) is only the explanation of one part of what occurred that day at 7 p.m.

All that we saw is not close to becoming official. Bur we don't car, tose who saw a giant ufo know very well that they had not been dreaming and that they could not have mistaken this "vision" with a satellite (or at least a part of them).

and according to all these testimonies at the 4 corners of France, among other, it was not a single giant ufo, but several, given their slowness of move. A crazy thing, come to think at it!

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Mer 29 Juin 2011, 23:26

correcte [sic] it was a crazy thing given its size and its move without any noise an its majectic size so like you said it was a crazy thing but i'm frankly glad that i was able to witness this atmospheric reentry of that UFO i'm going to see your witness report on your website because it makes me happy that i can talk about it again without being called a crackpot.

theseb67

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Wed June 29 2011, 11:56 p.m.

nice testimony Philippe i went to see your kink and frankly nice sketch to represent the ufo bravo its greatly done and as it as said it has nothing to do with the official explanation they hide the truth from us and mybe the government fears the reaction of the population in thinking to provoke a movement of general panic but as those who saw it say the know the truth

fred31
Confirmed member
Male Age: 38
Number of messages: 6
Registered on: 22/06/2011
Localization: Toulouse
Occupation: Vidéo
Hobbies: Musique Poker Archéologie

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Thu July 07 2011, 11:59 p.m.

Your testimonies theseb and philippe are really interesting and especially useful, by searching a little i fount [sic] a radio record (audio) on the topic, i give you the ling its [sic] confirming what you say.

400 UFO in France - November 5, 1990 by SECRET-REALITE

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Fri July 08 2011, 01:59 a.m.

thanks for this audio record it just confrms what we say

thanks to you fred ,in addition it adds testimonies even it they are audio.

Alain.M
Age: 7
Number of messages: 872
Registered on: 19/10/2009
Localization: Aquitaine
Occupation: filmmaking, infography, sound design
Hobbies: creation, fiddling and paranormal
Observator analyst

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Tue 09 Aug 2011, 06:26 p.m.

Hello, i also have a [female] friend who saw a black triangle!

There weas small white lights of the same size than stars at the ends, and moved slowly.

When I asked her for the size of the object at arm's length, she spread her arms on a V towards the sky, it must have been 1 meter at arm's length.

She also noticed a fourth moving light, coming from above the triangle, passing below while zigzaging.

A.

Stilgar
Forum team

Stilgar
Forum team
Age: 47
Number of messages: 423
Registered on: 08/25/2010
Localization: Loire
Occupation: IT engineer
Hobbies: numerous

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Thu Aug 11 2011, 11:13 a.m.

Hello,

The official version may be real.

What one can suspect is that our visitors take advantage of the satellites reentry and other stones from space to their big visits so that they can hide at best.

theseb67
Sympathetic participation
Male Age: 40
Number of messages: 18
Registered on: 28/02/2011
Localization: wittenheim
Occupation: carpenter
Hobbies: poker ufology

Subject: Re: Witness of a giant ufo November 5, 1990 Thu Aug 11 2011, 11:48 a.m.

yes that's probable ,i even asked myself about it if it was not a ufo that hit this debris and then fell down to earth again ,given the size of the ufos that night, it remains possible.

Discussion:

On 5 November 1990, one or two minutes after 07:00 p.m., a very commonplace phenomenon occurred, explained, and devoid of any actual strangeness, but it nevertheless started a UFO delirium of some of the French ufologists.

The sightings started with an explosive decay over the Bay of Biscay in France, resulting in combustion fragments seen from afar, and generally, as they approached, seen as a group of three main lights - hence it was called a "triangle" - of large angular size, and followed by trails of smoke and sparks.

Once over land, the thing was seen from different angles and at various distances by people on the ground, which gives a range of quite diverse descriptions.

The thing crossed France following a line approximately from Bordeaux to Strasbourg, in silence, in a straight line without any maneuver, in two to three minutes, reaching Strasbourg at about 07:06 p.m.

There were also sightings reported from the South of England, London, Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland, but not beyond.

In the evening, several Gendarmerie brigades contacted the National Center for Space Studies to report what people told them. Gendarmes brigades of Angers and Tulle got the chance to see the display themselves. In the evening, the Press service of the armies, SIRPA, confirmed that military pilots had seen something without being able to formally identify it. Near Paris airports of Orly and Roissy, the luminous phenomenon was seen from the control towers. Hundreds or even thousands of civilians reported their sightings to the authorities, the Press and other media.

Radio stations, television channels, newspapers, talk of a UFO, then a meteor, and finally the correct explanation appeared through information given by NASA: it was the entering in the atmosphere of the remains of a Russian Proton rocket launched from the Baikonur space center to put a Gorizont 21 satellite in orbit. Calculations had predicted the fallout of the rocket debris at its 36th orbit, crossing France from the South West to the North East on November 5, 1990 around 07:00 p.m.. SEPRA, then officially in charge of such matters, provided this explanation to news agencies on November 9, 1990.

In November 5, 1990 already, an amateur expert in satellites and space debris impact trajectory calculations, Pierre Neirinck, had seen himself, and had also identified the phenomenon, independently of NASA, as space junk from the Proton rocket.

Any sensible ufologist should have understood what is was from the beginning, given the descriptions, and at least understand thereafter that it was a classical space junk case. But some ufologists refused to hear anything about a rocket and continued to talk and write about it as a "UFO flap", of "400 UFOs" or even "thousands of UFOs", often mixing other, unrelated sightings that were more or less of the same day, sighting who have other explanations. This resulted in the continuing presence of this explained case as massive UFO sightings in some of the UFO literature, and of course this includes observations made in Alsace.

Regarding this very little detailed report, published belatedly, it is clear that what was seen was the fall of the rocket debris.

Note that the witness rejects the explanation under wrongs excuses: the size, too big for a rocket in his opinion. While the show is indeed too big for a rocket, it was actually not a rocket or a piece of rocket, but many widely scattered debris of a rocket stage.

The witness said he saw the outlines despite the night. But everything suggests that these contours are imaginary. A known phenomenon is that one combines three points a triangular shape because "logically" when one immediately thinks he is seeing a "craft" as this witness did, there "must" be a mass, triangular because there are three "spots". At night, sometimes a show of this kind make the star "disappear" visually between the much brighter spots because the vision adjusts to the brightest point; then one believes there is a mass.

The witness eventually rally to the absolutely silly thesis of the "aliens who take advantage of the space junk re-entry." Lunatic ufologists came out with this because it was becoming very ridiculous to deny the return of the rocket debris that night. This "explanation" is a post-hoc error.

The bottomline of the case is that if there had been a "huge alien craft" in the sky there at that time, how could it be that this witness did not also see the gigantic display of the falls of the rocket debris?

Evaluation:

Space junk reentry.

Sources references:

* = Source is available to me.
? = Source I am told about but could not get so far. Help needed.

File history:

Authoring:

Main author: Patrick Gross
Contributors: None
Reviewers: None
Editeur: Patrick Gross

Changes history:

Version: Create/changed by: Date: Description:
0.1 Patrick Gross May 27, 2015 Creation, [my1].
1.0 Patrick Gross May 27, 2015 First published.

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